The siege on our Capitol

Destroyer said:
bgreene said:
Again with the personal insults.

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Siege on our Capitol - attempt to stop certification of the next duly elected President of our United States of America . Encouraged by the former President and his lawyer .

A historic event in our history that may lead to the undoing of our great democracy .
Like the fall of the Senate on the Roman Empire - when a single Pharaoh took over.
A democracy is fragile and must be upheld or it falls to tyranny.

Donald Trump wants to rule our nation - to run it as part of his own business kingdom.
To slowly eliminate non supporting entities - in our government , our businesses, our media and our people. Only those of strongest character can face this truth, speak up, and vote against it .
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bgreene said:
Destroyer said:
Siege on our Capitol - attempt to stop certification of the next duly elected President of our United States of America . Encouraged by the former President and his lawyer .

A historic event in our history that may lead to the undoing of our great democracy .
Like the fall of the Senate on the Roman Empire - when a single Pharaoh took over.
A democracy is fragile and must be upheld or it falls to tyranny.

Donald Trump wants to rule our nation - to run it as part of his own business kingdom.
To slowly eliminate non supporting entities - in our government , our businesses, our media and our people. Only those of strongest character can face this truth, speak up, and vote against it .
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A historic event? Hardly. There have been many many demonstrations at our Nation's Capital. But I will agree this was one of the more newsworthy.

The Egyptians had Pharaohs. The Romans had Consuls

I totally agree with you that a Democracy is a fragile thing and must be upheld. That's why people are so much against the Democrats right now, because they see what is happening to their freedoms.

I agree that Mr. Trump wants to rule our nation, as president. We disagree as to if he wants to run it as part of his business empire. He is constrained by the Constitution on what he can and cannot do.

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Destroyer said:
bgreene said:
A historic event? Hardly. There have been many many demonstrations at our Nation's Capital. But I will agree this was one of the more newsworthy.

The Egyptians had Pharaohs. The Romans had Consuls

I totally agree with you that a Democracy is a fragile thing and must be upheld. That's why people are so much against the Democrats right now, because they see what is happening to their freedoms.

I agree that Mr. Trump wants to rule our nation, as president. We disagree as to if he wants to run it as part of his business empire. He is constrained by the Constitution on what he can and cannot do.

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Hah constraints on what he can do . Spin destroyer ! Spin !
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Neither does Biden, e.g. admitting that the Supreme Court had ruled on eviction mandates, but attempting to ignore it. The constraints still applied, as they did often with Trump. His executive orders were often successfully challenged or at least delayed & modified in court.

Regarding controlling the media, Trump was the subject of constant, incessant and often flagrantly dishonest attacks from the majority of the media and couldn’t/didn’t silence them.

The constitution is very much at work constraining presidents and if, as you suggest, Trump wants to become a dictator, there is zero chance of his being able to make it happen.

The statist nature of European governments, including disarming of their populations and lack of constitutions that declare individual rights, rather than privileges granted by the governments, made Hitler’s takeover possible.

Where Trump was at all similar to Hitler was in stirring national pride in our exceptional (while not without its problems) country and showing respect for those of us who actually work and produce goods and services. He never vilified any ethnic group or tried to shut them out of our prosperity - exactly the opposite.
 
scook said:
Neither does Biden, e.g. admitting that the Supreme Court had ruled on eviction mandates, but attempting to ignore it. The constraints still applied, as they did often with Trump. His executive orders were often successfully challenged or at least delayed & modified in court.

Regarding controlling the media, Trump was the subject of constant, incessant and often flagrantly dishonest attacks from the majority of the media and couldn’t/didn’t silence them.

The constitution is very much at work constraining presidents and if, as you suggest, Trump wants to become a dictator, there is zero chance of his being able to make it happen.

The statist nature of European governments, including disarming of their populations and lack of constitutions that declare individual rights, rather than privileges granted by the governments, made Hitler’s takeover possible.

Where Trump was at all similar to Hitler was in stirring national pride in our exceptional (while not without its problems) country and showing respect for those of us who actually work and produce goods and services. He never vilified any ethnic group or tried to shut them out of our prosperity - exactly the opposite.
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Based on all trumps comments and behaviors I very much disagree - he lost the election by large margin then tried to stop our democratic transfer of power.
The LACK of credible evidence otherwise proves this out.
 
I know we don’t agree on the likelihood of significant voting irregularities, but an important point is that he was not successful in getting the voting integrity thoroughly examined and wasn’t able to get the outcome changed. I’m not convinced of the fairness of the process (potential fraudulent ballots, not necessarily fraudulent counting), but the system prevented any attempt to change the result.

My concern with your narrative is that I think you have too little faith in how the founding fathers set up the system - congress and the courts frustrated Trump’s attempts to do some things and have done the same with some of Biden’s. I just don’t think there’s a viable path to dictatorship in the US.

That said, I’m very concerned about the far reaching and long lasting effects of the radical left’s permissiveness, allowing rampant crime to spread. I think it could lead to some very serious conflict with some very bad consequences.
 
I don’t think that’s what we were talking about.

Your proposition that Trump would destroy our democratic structure seems to me to be an extremely unrealistic one with absolutely zero probability of success. This was clearly demonstrated while he was in office by the constant opposition and many successful court and congressional blocking of parts of his agenda.

It’s clear that you can’t stand the man on a personal level and you have plenty of reason for that. He has an ego the size of Texas, Montana and Alaska and can be obnoxious in his personal attacks. To be fair, you should probably give a little more weight to the obnoxiousness of the dishonest, personal attacks that were constantly leveled at him by the president and political opponents.
 
scook said:
I don’t think that’s what we were talking about.

Your proposition that Trump would destroy our democratic structure seems to me to be an extremely unrealistic one with absolutely zero probability of success. This was clearly demonstrated while he was in office by the constant opposition and many successful court and congressional blocking of parts of his agenda.

It’s clear that you can’t stand the man on a personal level and you have plenty of reason for that. He has an ego the size of Texas, Montana and Alaska and can be obnoxious in his personal attacks. To be fair, you should probably give a little more weight to the obnoxiousness of the dishonest, personal attacks that were constantly leveled at him by the president and political opponents.
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That’s got more holes in it than Swiss cheese !
1. Trump has long been the KING of insulting others
2. The Republican Party is working - right now - to make fair elections UNFAIR and the outcomes CONTROLLED by their own appointment officials.
3. I don’t hate trump ……although I don’t like him personally . What I hate is he’s a lying cheating con man traitor to our nation.

What you refer to us “ unlikely to happen “ analogous to German ***s who thought things wouldn’t get worse in their country, until it was too late and they couldn’t get out.

Those who fail to follow the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it .
 
Do you have a link regarding Republicans working to make elections unfair? Everything I’ve seen looks like they just want voter ID, adequate to reasonably assure that only citizens are voting. I’m open to new information.
 
So unfair means limiting early voting to 17 days before and limiting mail in voting? And having an ID to vote? How is that unfair? How are they going to control the outcome if the votes are counted legally?
 
bgreene said:
Oteps - no that’s not bad - what is bad was in the attachment I thoughtfully provided

https://www.npr.org/2021/02/28/9708...re-moving-to-fix-elections-that-werent-broken
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Hmmm.... I'm with Osteps on this one. He said
So unfair means limiting early voting to 17 days before and limiting mail in voting? And having an ID to vote? How is that unfair? How are they going to control the outcome if the votes are counted legally?
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To which you said
no that’s not bad - what is bad was in the attachment I thoughtfully provided
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Well, I read word for word the link you thoughtfully provided, and while it's slant and spin was decidedly anti-Republican, still, it did make a number of salient points. All of which Osteps covered in his comment. So I'll repeat his comment ... "So unfair means limiting early voting to 17 days before and limiting mail in voting? And having an ID to vote? How is that unfair? How are they going to control the outcome if the votes are counted legally"?

I'll ask the same question. How is that unfair? How are the Republicans going to control the outcome of the election if the votes are counted legally?

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The records produced by Meadows leave "no doubt" that the White House knew about the violent riot that was taking place at the Capitol as the chaos unfolded.

Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., read out a series of panicked messages that pro-Trump Fox News hosts, congressional lawmakers and even the president's own children had sent Meadows during the riot.

"Mark, the president needs to tell people in the Capitol to go home. This is hurting all of us. He is destroying his legacy," Cheney said, quoting a text from Fox host Laura Ingraham.

Meanwhile - the so called law and order trump was enjoying the attack on our Capitol
 
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