Internet Sales Tax

Destroyer

Destroyer

God
The pigs in Washington DC are at it again... looking for ways to pay for the massive debt they have saddled every (tax paying) American with. N0w they are trying to ram through an internet sales tax. If you haven't contacted your rep to voice your displeasure, do so NOW!! This thing is on a fast track so there's not much time. They're hoping to get this done before the public realizes what's going on.
 
It's never going to come to cutting spending. Only ways to generate more revenue. They think us tax payers have a limitless supply to keep giving more and more. They all act like CEO's of corporations and we work for them. Guess what folks, they work for US!!!! Until people start voting them out of office they will continue to tax us in new ways.:cen::cen::cen:
 
I agree with you, govt. spending is out of control.
BUT
Sales tax on interweb sales is due to the state, not the Feds.
So the Feds have their house in order and are going forward with this groundbreaking legislation? IMHO another cluster..
Just because a sale was made via the internet should not relieve the interested parties from their sales tax. AND I don't think it ever has. It is simply too difficult to enforce so the masses have said, "No Bueno" Brick and mortar stores selling to people walking thru a door or via the WWW, I don't see the difference. Only dispute is what state to send the tax to, the buyers or the sellers. I can see some instances of double the tax if your the seller being audited after your customer voluntarily paid the sales tax in another state.
Florida had a month of sales tax amnesty last year. It was their attempt to get businesses within the State to ante-up for products purchased without sales tax. ("Amnesty" for those wondering, is the state forgiving the penalty on the tax being late..)
"Every transaction" requires sales tax according to the Florida Dept. of Revenue. Like every time a car is sold, which could be a bunch of times, sales tax is paid.. I disagree with it all, I mean I don't like it. We sell lumber at a small margin, the state gets 7% of everything we sell and we often have to send off the sales tax before we have even collected the money from the customer. Then the way they force you to do it all online and the state swipes the money directly from your account. Nazi-MF ers.
 
RidgeRunner said:
I agree with you, govt. spending is out of control.
BUT
Sales tax on interweb sales is due to the state, not the Feds.
So the Feds have their house in order and are going forward with this groundbreaking legislation? IMHO another cluster..
Just because a sale was made via the internet should not relieve the interested parties from their sales tax. .
Click to expand...

Well, yes and no.

What is happening here is that right now sales tax on internet sales is ONLY due if the buyer lives in the same state as the seller. This new law would make it so that someone living in a different state would still have to pay the sales tax of the sellers state.

When the internet came into being, congress passed a law that made sales tax on the internet illegal except for the way I've just outlined. But the big brick and mortar stores are now spending massive amounts of money thru their PACS trying to get Congress to change the law. The reason is simple. Increased profits through less competition. They want to force small internet start up companies out of business. By having to track, collect and pay to the states sales taxes it will put a huge amount of strain on a small mom and pop store selling out of their living room. Plus, think about it. It will FORCE people to work for FREE for the government. They don't get paid for the amount of time or effort they need to spend in order to do the paperwork to tax, collect and send the taxes in. Big brick and mortar stores could care less, they already have to do that anyway, so it's an easy way to drive out the competition. This whole campaign is being funded by the large brick and mortar stores. But the result will be the same for ALL of us. It WILL COST MORE to buy something on the internet. Cheaper prices will become a thing of the past, and THAT is why we must fight this.
 
I don't know what law Congress passed outlining the sales tax structure in your state?? You can check me but I believe the collection of Interstate taxes is prohibited by the constitution. However, most states have a Use Tax. The Use Tax is applicable for anything purchased online or otherwise from out of State where sales taxes were not collected from the purchaser at the time of purchase.
Florida Dept of Revenue does give a break for the time it takes to fill out the sales tax paperwork. (half of a percent or something) So even though it is a bit more work, the workers would be working as indentured servants, not as a slave of the govt.
As much as I hate to say it, anyone who owns and operates a business in their livingroom needs to be paying their way too, even if the money just goes to the state and not directly on the National Debt.. Isn't it enough that small mom and pop companies operating out of their living room have no overhead, liability, employees to pay, reemployment tax, workers comp, health insurance, nor do they have to deal with the complex myriad of governmental agencies crawling up their backside.
If you have ever run a brick and mortar type business legitimately, you know good and well why the brick and mortar stores are trying to get all businesses to pay their share. Something to keep the auditors busy and off your back if nothing else..
Your internet price will go up a little, but if you continue to buy it from the internet it will still be cheaper.
 
Destroyer-"By having to track, collect and pay to the states sales taxes it will put a huge amount of strain on a small mom and pop store selling out of their living room."

Intrastate commerce, (selling products in your own state) requires the collection of sales tax. Same people, same paperwork, if they aren't already paying sales tax they are breaking the law.

The sales tax is arguably the "Fairest" tax we have.
 
RidgeRunner said:
Destroyer-"By having to track, collect and pay to the states sales taxes it will put a huge amount of strain on a small mom and pop store selling out of their living room."

Intrastate commerce, (selling products in your own state) requires the collection of sales tax. Same people, same paperwork, if they aren't already paying sales tax they are breaking the law.

The sales tax is arguably the "Fairest" tax we have.
Click to expand...

No, you misunderstand. This will mean that a mom and pop store will have to track, figure out and pay sales taxes to 50 different states. (or however many states actually have sales taxes) Each state is different, has their own rates and laws. Right now mom and pops only have to track and pay for their own state. So now they will be responsible for paying taxes to 50 different states, at each states rate, and if they screw up the fines and penalties could easily put them out of business. It will put a lot of them out of business anyways, simply because they won't be able to afford the extra manpower necessary to do all the paperwork required.

And while we're on the subject... Where did that statement about sales taxes being the fairest tax come from? Sorry Ridge, but I have to disagree with you on that.

What makes anyone think that the state is entitled to ANY money from the result of a sale of goods from one person to another? They did absolutely nothing to help with the sale, not a single road, police, fire dept or anything else was involved with the sale, any more than what is normally out there already and already being paid for by state taxes. Sales taxes are nothng but a scam by the states to steal even more of your money.
They are, without a doubt, the unfairest tax of them all.
 
Destroyer said:
They are, without a doubt, the unfairest tax of them all.
Click to expand...

I dont know, I would consider it more "fair" than some of the others....I think Ridge's reasoning is along the lines you are only paying tax if you choose to purchase something and the amount you pay is directly proportional to what you choose to spend. Now obviously everyone has to buy stuff for basic survival although NJ at least has no sales tax on food and clothes so that helps.

I would have to say the least fair would be income tax. I mean just taking a straight cut out of your pay because you made it???

Most fair I think is property tax and if you consider it a tax, toll charges on roads are pretty fair as well as you can choose to take other roads if you want.

Sales tax I would put in the middle, but bottom line is they all suck.
 
Actually, I think property taxes are unfair. Each parcel of land is valued different and why should a land owner in Dade county pay more than Polk county? Why do land-owners have to pay anything more than those who own no land. Aside from this, RWilson is on track with my thinking. Sales tax is like a flat tax, very fair because it is the same for everyone. No loopholes to escape sales tax, even if the administrators are a bit Draconian. Think about it, even illegally gotten gains turns into good clean revenue when the money is spent and sales tax is collected. From drug dealers to clergymen, rich or poor sales tax has a set of blinders on. Just pay at the point of purchase and be happy. Don't like the tax, don't buy the item. You can truly pick and choose.
Not that I am for taxes either, they all suck..

As a seller I can tell you Florida has a 6% sales tax and every county adds their surtax. We have to track where every sale is being made. Yes there is paperwork involved. No it is not rocket science or onerous. We have been audited twice in the past 8 years and it was unpleasant both times. So please explain to me, why should a shoestring operation started in someone's living room get a pass on all the fun?

BTW, Florida is one of 7 states without a State Income Tax. If I had to pay the state any more tax I think I would be up in arms about it too. Just want everyone on a level playing field.

They could solve the internet sales tax issue or at least make it less complicated if they would allow the seller to collect and submit the sales taxes due based on the rate in the state they are in. Instead of basing the sales tax rate on the buyers location. Reciprocity between states would go a long way too.

I normally hunt for the "I agree with Destroyer button".
Not this time, but that is what makes this great forum even better. :clap:
 
All taxes are confiscatory. Government taking from Citizens money they earned, under the threat of force.

Under a Constitutional Government, they would raise a tax to handle a local, or national need and only take what was needed to handle that need.

What we have under the current, decades now, government is confiscatory taxes of all forms, death taxes, estate taxes, sales, income, both federal and state.

The purpose is no longer to address a national need it solely to grow the size, scope and dominance of the government.

When it is divided up under the guise of different types of taxes no one even discusses the totality of the theft that is occurring.

This internet tax is just the latest scheme to remove more of the wealth from the private sector and turn it over to the government. Will that money be used to reduce your states massive deficit?
Will it be used to address a states emergency situation?
No it will be used nationally and in the states to grow the size and scope of the government.
Period.

Good men as those here have fallen into the trap of debating whether this tax or that tax is fair.
The conversation is being led and controlled by those who are delivering the Kings Tea.
 
RidgeRunner said:
Actually, I think property taxes are unfair. Each parcel of land is valued different and why should a land owner in Dade county pay more than Polk county? Why do land-owners have to pay anything more than those who own no land.
Well, actually, they do . Renters pay rent to a landlord, and he (the landlord) pays property taxes. So since the property tax, as well as other taxes are built into the amount of rent, they do pay property taxes, just indirectly.

Aside from this, RWilson is on track with my thinking. Sales tax is like a flat tax, very fair because it is the same for everyone. No loopholes to escape sales tax, even if the administrators are a bit Draconian. Think about it, even illegally gotten gains turns into good clean revenue when the money is spent and sales tax is collected.
But you're missing part of my point. WHY should ANY money be collected for sales tax? WTF did the government do to earn any part of the sale money? The answer is zero.. they didn't do anything and yet they steal our money on the pretense that they are owed it...

From drug dealers to clergymen, rich or poor sales tax has a set of blinders on. Just pay at the point of purchase and be happy. Don't like the tax, don't buy the item. You can truly pick and choose.
Not that I am for taxes either, they all suck..
See? Now you're getting it. ALL taxes suck, just some more than others. The tax free internet was a bastion, a place of solitude away from the blatent theft of our money. And it was made that way to help interstate commerce... but so many new start ups made a dent in sales that the big box stores started crying to their congressmen about how unfair it was... (even though those same big box stores have their own internet sales branches). They never envisioned the competition, and now they're lobbying so they can put the little guys out of business... even if it hurts you and I and the rest of us in the process.

As a seller I can tell you Florida has a 6% sales tax and every county adds their surtax. We have to track where every sale is being made. Yes there is paperwork involved. No it is not rocket science or onerous. We have been audited twice in the past 8 years and it was unpleasant both times. So please explain to me, why should a shoestring operation started in someone's living room get a pass on all the fun?
Because you get the SAME pass on every internet sale you make as long as the person is from a different state. No one gets a complete pass, because you still have to collect sales tax if the buyer is from your own state, but you all get the same pass on interstate sales. It's good for business and good for competition, and good for both the buyers and sellers.

BTW, Florida is one of 7 states without a State Income Tax. If I had to pay the state any more tax I think I would be up in arms about it too. Just want everyone on a level playing field.
OK, I'm all for that. Lets have Floridians and the other 6 states pay a state income tax also. :you:

They could solve the internet sales tax issue or at least make it less complicated if they would allow the seller to collect and submit the sales taxes due based on the rate in the state they are in. Instead of basing the sales tax rate on the buyers location. Reciprocity between states would go a long way too.
Not really. See, the downside to that would be that buyers would avoid buying from those states that had a higher sales tax. Lets say Florida has a 6% and Ohio has a 4% sales tax. And along comes a buyer and wants a certain big ticket item.. like a car. Which state do you think he's going to buy that car in over the internet? See? It has to be geared towards the state the buyer is in, since that way no matter where he buys the car from, the tax will be the same... IE, his states tax rate.

I normally hunt for the "I agree with Destroyer button".
Not this time, but that is what makes this great forum even better. :clap:
I'll get you to hit that "I agree with Destroyer" button eventually. It just takes time to make a convincing arguement sometimes. And in all cases, you humble me by saying that and I thank you. And yes, our ability to disagree and still remain a family is what makes these forums great. :fam:
Click to expand...
.
Willy said:
All taxes are confiscatory. Government taking from Citizens money they earned, under the threat of force.

Under a Constitutional Government, they would raise a tax to handle a local, or national need and only take what was needed to handle that need.

What we have under the current, decades now, government is confiscatory taxes of all forms, death taxes, estate taxes, sales, income, both federal and state.

The purpose is no longer to address a national need it solely to grow the size, scope and dominance of the government.

When it is divided up under the guise of different types of taxes no one even discusses the totality of the theft that is occurring.

This internet tax is just the latest scheme to remove more of the wealth from the private sector and turn it over to the government. Will that money be used to reduce your states massive deficit?
Will it be used to address a states emergency situation?
No it will be used nationally and in the states to grow the size and scope of the government.
Period.

Good men as those here have fallen into the trap of debating whether this tax or that tax is fair.
The conversation is being led and controlled by those who are delivering the Kings Tea.
Click to expand...

What he said. Said with the elloquence he is noted for. God I wish I could write that well. We both write with a passion for what we know is right, but I just write from the heart. Willy writes from the soul. :clap:

RWilson2526 said:
bottom line is they all suck.
Click to expand...

I could not have said it any better. :beer:
 
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Willy, of course from that angle nearly all taxes are against the Constitution. If that is your point Destroyer I will start hunting the button. I didn't miss the point, in the real world, government exists and some are in deficit in light of the economic conditions. Florida has a billion or so dollar surplus as a State. So the governor is finding ways to spend, did I mention he is running for governor again... A good day for government workers, and a prime example of government expansion following the contraction in spending and manpower, they really cut too much when Scott took office, but then they will have plenty of time to see after any overage.
I'll take sales tax for visitors over state income tax all day.
x4- Taxes suck
 
Because you get the SAME pass on every internet sale you make as long as the person is from a different state. No one gets a complete pass, because you still have to collect sales tax if the buyer is from your own state, but you all get the same pass on interstate sales. It's good for business and good for competition, and good for both the buyers and sellers.


There are no passes only a lack of enforcement. Sales and Use Tax- It is the buyers responsibility to voluntarily submit to the state any unpaid portion of sales tax in the form of USE TAX. The laws are there, but not being enforced. Ask me how I know, or should I say, Meet any auditors lately?
 
RidgeRunner said:
Because you get the SAME pass on every internet sale you make as long as the person is from a different state. No one gets a complete pass, because you still have to collect sales tax if the buyer is from your own state, but you all get the same pass on interstate sales. It's good for business and good for competition, and good for both the buyers and sellers.


There are no passes only a lack of enforcement. Sales and Use Tax- It is the buyers responsibility to voluntarily submit to the state any unpaid portion of sales tax in the form of USE TAX. The laws are there, but not being enforced. Ask me how I know, or should I say, Meet any auditors lately?
Click to expand...

No, not quite correct. "It is the buyers responsibility to voluntarily submit to the state any unpaid portion of sales tax in the form of USE TAX". ONLY if the buyer lives in the same state as the seller. Otherwise there is no sales or use tax, because Congress specifically legistated that the internet would be free of sales and use tax. But now they are considering taking that away because they are getting lobbied by the big box stores that are crying ... "Oh boo hoo... it's sooooo unfair".... The ONLY thing they are interested in is MONEY. Fairness has nothing to do with it.
 
Not to beat a dead horse.. BUT

I am correct, according to the CPA and the Florida Department of Revenue. It is no more voluntary than volunteering to pay Federal Income Tax.

Case in point: Ordering cheap leather gloves and forklift seats online from an out of state seller. The FDOR auditor caught it and said we had to pay the use tax plus the penalty and our CPA agreed with him so IDK?? Maybe Florida is different?
Or maybe a business is different than personal. If it were voluntary then why would the State Have a week of Amnesty and further why would there be a penalty??

I am blonde but I catch on pretty fast. Tax & penalty!! :ski:
 
Ok, I just pushed the "Ridgerunner is right" button. The seller is not required to charge the sales tax, but the purchaser, legally, is required to pay a "use" tax if the seller does not charge the sales tax. What a crock of BS.
 
Glad this thread is getting more on track with correct information. Only thing I havent seen mentioned is these mom and pop stores will not be affected unless they do more than a million in business annually. Ever since I got on my IRS payment plan I pay close attention to tax laws.

Lets face it, brick and mortar are good for everyone, from those that design, build, and staff to those that shop there. I see no reason internet businesses should be given a 6.75% advantage (NC sales tax). Taxes suck, I hate em and my standard of living would be far greater if they were lower but they are a necessary evil and all businesses should be treated equally.
 
tartuffe said:
Glad this thread is getting more on track with correct information. Only thing I havent seen mentioned is these mom and pop stores will not be affected unless they do more than a million in business annually. Ever since I got on my IRS payment plan I pay close attention to tax laws.

Lets face it, brick and mortar are good for everyone, from those that design, build, and staff to those that shop there. I see no reason internet businesses should be given a 6.75% advantage (NC sales tax). Taxes suck, I hate em and my standard of living would be far greater if they were lower but they are a necessary evil and all businesses should be treated equally.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but it's going to make a whole lot of difference in how I personally shop. I buy a lot of items on eBay, and if they (the government) starts requiring me to pay sales taxes on those items I'm not gonna be happy.... Sorry, but I'm not concerned with one business being treated more fairly than another.... When you have hundred million dollar brick and mortar stores crying about being treated fairly you know that something is not kosher. Oh Boo-Hoo... BS!! Their aim is to eliminate competition, pure and simple, and they are using the US Government to help accomplish their goal. The ultimate loser is going to be the consumer, and I'll be damned if I like it or really care that one business has to pay tax and the next one doesn't. No one ever said that capitalism was fair.
 
Soon it's going to be anyone exchanging cash for anything will be taxed.I mean when you buy a used car for example weather from a dealer or private you pay sales tax.How many time does the goverment need to collect tax on the same car. Could you just emagin buying a lawn mower from your neighbor and paying sales tax.Well if they have there that kind of nonsense will happen.It's not about fairness to small . It's about the greed of this goverment
 
lathehand said:
Soon it's going to be anyone exchanging cash for anything will be taxed.I mean when you buy a used car for example weather from a dealer or private you pay sales tax.How many time does the goverment need to collect tax on the same car. Could you just emagin buying a lawn mower from your neighbor and paying sales tax.Well if they have their way that kind of nonsense will happen.It's not about fairness to small . It's about the greed of this goverment
Click to expand...

Exactly
 
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